Brad over at Enemy of Debt has a piece on his site right now called When you’re tired of being broke, you’ll start saving. Perhaps it was a significant lack of sleep over the last two days, or perhaps it was something else entirely, but I called shenanigans to this rule.
As mentioned, I hadn’t slept well for two days, and I’m not exactly chipper on a regular basis, so I think some of my grumbling was exhaustion. But I also just get tired of PF posts that make blanket proclamations about debt being some personal failing to suck it up. Brad fully admits that he writes for the majority of people, not the “small minority” of folks who are in debt through no fault of their own. (Though is anyone else skeptical that we’re such a small minority in the debt population?)
So I have promised Brad that I’ll try to remember his posts are broad generalizations (at least in terms of his audience). Still, is anyone else wishing PF bloggers would just bother to add in one line noting that there are some exceptions? Or would that get too repetitive?
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As a side note, Donna Freedman from Smart Spending (aka my mom) is looking for some people who have used Bing’s cash-back program. She’s doing an article on these kinds of sites, but is having trouble finding Bing users. Can you go ahead and contact her at SmartSpending at live dot com?
Amen sister!
Also, I saw a Dave Ramsey piece where he acknowledged that his system is designed for people who simply spend beyond their means (emotional spenders)/lack financial discipline…so even he admits that some people lived responsibly and simply were dealt a rough hand and for them, a different method might make most sense (e.g. paying off highest interest debt first, or whatever).
Elizabeth,
Thanks for the information! I am glad that Dave is aware that different situations occur. Which isn't to say that the snowball method can't work for people. Personally, I prefer to hit the highest-interest debt first. But I know a lot of people have been helped by it.
I agree with you entirely…perhaps there is an amount of our current circumstances that we could have controlled better. For the most part major medical expenses did a number on us and the fact that I no longer work. That has caused a significant loss of income. I did try for SSI but was denied…sigh. We have gone without until we are half crazy just to keep paying down medical debt. Not only has it been tedious but we certainly have not had anything to cut out of our budget. No vacations, dinner out, no cell phones, etc.
I'm sorry to hear about your health problems. I know about living in absolute deprivation, but with my bipolar 2 and Tim's ADD it's hard to maintain. So mostly we just try to be choosy about which things we indulge in. That and some rewards programs help us do things like see movies at AMC for free.
As for SSI, I don't know the details of your health condition but if you can get a doctor to say that it's reasonable to expect you'll be disabled for one year or more, you should be able to apply for disability. Once you're turned down (and usually you will be) you can get a lawyer. (S)he will take a percent, but you'll be a lot more successful.
I know it's a long slog, and even then you get very little, but once you're approved you'll get back pay which could help with the debt. In addition, it's not necessarily enough to live on, but it at least it's steady money. And you can then take advantage of any vocational rehab services if you think you're able. They help you determine what you can do and help you find placement.
I'm in debt for a combination of bad circumstances and bad decisions. The bad circumstances that forced me into debt happened when I was young (and susceptible) enough that I felt like "Oh well, I already had to bend over, why bother standing up?" which was the worst decision I ever made. Now, I understand things better, but I'm still willing to admit I make bad decisions. One of the main reasons I got into debt was not having enough savings. So now, I'll build savings (at 0.2% interest) instead of paying off debt (at 5-15%). I'm getting back on track, but I realize I still make incorrect decisions based on emotions. It is difficult to swallow advice from people making combined six figures who's stupidity was keeping up with the joneses though.
FYI, I don't know a single person that uses bing, let alone bing cash-back. It just hasn't caught on.
I completely agree, a.b. It's a bitter pill to swallow when people are talking about how to get rid of your debt when they make more as one person than you and your partner make total. That's not to blame them for their success, but it does mean their advice may not be pertinent to you.
I think we all make decisions based on emotions that may or may not be the best. The trick is to try and learn to step outside the moment when you're reacting emotionally. It's hard, but I'm getting better at it.
His point is valid but throwing around $5000 as an amount anyone could save if they stopped being so reckless and selfish (with a $1000 wardrobe, no less!) just seems woefully out of touch. If I had thousands in latte and shoe money that I could just cut out, I probably wouldn't be reading a finance site.
"I’ll save when I get a raise. (No you won’t)"
I do know plenty of people whose wants always equal their income (and I try so hard not to let that be me!) but I also know people who cannot save because they don't have enough to live on.
"I’ll save when I pay my car off. (No you won’t)"
We own our ONE car. We don't have a second car because we can not afford the car payments.
This is my usual issue with PF sites. I don't need to stretch $40K or $50K a year, I need to stretch $20K. I don't need to be told to switch my manicures from weekly to biweekly –I had some unladylike words for Suze Orman when I read that (in a library book, because, OBVIOUSLY).
Meg,
Why is that women are assumed to get manicures? Don't they know plenty of us bite our nails???
Seriously, though, I agree with your point. A lot of the people who blog make a pretty comfortable living. Many of them are in two-income households, with both people bringing in a good salary.
So it may be hard for them to understand a situation like yours or, to a lesser degree, mine. Until they have lived in a situation similar to ours, they may not understand just how out of reach their suggestions can be for us.
Your comment is a good wake-up call. I tend to think of us as struggling — which, in some ways, we are — but the fact is that we're better off than a lot of folks. It seems like most bloggers in the personal finance world make good money. Which makes sense, I suppose, since they have to write about it.
But it can be hard to be hit with a barrage of suggestions that just don't apply to you.
People like my mom can tell you plenty about how to live on $20,000. She lived on $12,000 in Seattle, which is saying something. But unfortunately, there aren't a lot of bloggers (at least, I haven't found them yet) who earn so little and can talk about it. I suppose it doesn't help that so many bloggers are worried about anonymity, which means we don't know their particulars.
I wish I had some brilliant advice to give you about stretching the few bucks you have, but I think it would be merely rehashing what you already know. In fact, I think the lower income you are, the more tricks you tend to know. It's necessary to survive.
I think mostly, in your situation, the tricks are less in saving money and more in staying the course (without losing your sanity along the way).
I agree, though you can't really blame him or any other PF blogger for not pointing out the "small minority" in every blog post.
I think the point to take away from this is that even if you're not the target audience, there are still things you can do to improve your savings situation. Even you, who may have primarily gotten into debt for different reasons than the majority of Gen-X overspenders, can still make better choices and affect your savings account and/or debt reduction, depending on what you prioritize.
Swagbucks can be redeemed for amazon cards and then groceries you would have paid cash for. Entertainment can be derived from library DVD rentals instead of satellite TV. Trips can be cancelled or postponed. You don't HAVE to cut these things out, but I think his point is, that if it were life or death, you would. Therefore, a substantial percentage of most people's financial situation are within their control. Yours might be more dependant on how you feel that day, week, or month, or what your physical limitations are but that doesn't mean that you are powerless to your situation.
Cristina,
I think those are some excellent insights! I don't necessarily advise that people go full-deprivation — unless, as you point out, it's absolutely necessary — because it can lead to a binge/purge cycle.
I didn't mean to imply that I think I'm powerless to my situation. I sometimes (okay… often) have fewer options than a healthy person. But I still have choices. They just may not be as good as I'd like them to be. (Of course, I'm not sure anyone is completely satisfied with their options.)
I guess my calling bull was more toward the post's overall attitude that somehow you won't be frugal until you're completely fed up. Some of us have been chugging along for ages, and we didn't need tens of thousands in debt to wake us up.
You're right that there's almost always something you *could* cut. Still, I think the thrust of Brad's post was more that any reasons must necessarily be excuses; and you should get over it and make debt reduction a priority.
Christina – Thank you for articulating this much better than I could have.
We all have some control over our own situations. I think that was the point of the original article. That if it was a life or death situation, we may be surprized as to how much of our spending would became 'extra'.
The article conveyed its point by using an extreme (the life or death situation) to illustrate its point. As with anything, it is up the reader of the article to adapt its basic principle to his/her own situation, if it applies. (In fairness, I have the benefit of making this conclusion after reading all of the responses.)
Ten,
You and Cristina both make an interesting point. Perhaps it's the title, but frankly I don't think that was the thrust of the article at all. I think it was one of the points.
To me, the main point of the article is that you'll only hear excuses from people who aren't saving. And they won't get off their butts about it until they are, as he said, sick of being broke.
I definitely agree with the point he made that you will always find more to cut if it's a matter of survival. But I really think that his main point was mostly that people who aren't saving are full of excuses.
Then again, each person takes something slightly different away from any blog post.
Thanks for bringing a contrasting point of view!
I think that with any advice, it doesn't work for all. Sometimes you can adjust it to fit your needs.
Jammin,
I think that is usually true. My major bone to pick is how such advice is often phrased. It seems like so little effort would go into a couple of lines acknowledging that there are other people out there. For example, he could have said, "Of course, not everyone can find money to save. There are those who need every penny. Even then, if they consider the life/death scenario above, they might be surprised how much they would be willing to cut."
I just think that bloggers tend to leave out anyone who doesn't fit the stereotype. And they assume we're a tiny, tiny niche. But I think there's more of us than they realize. It's the main reason why I started this blog, and I've found readers from all walks of life. Many of them have some unique situation that makes the average advice not nearly as pertinent.
Is your mom still looking for Bing users? One of my friends uses it (not a PFer) but I'd be happy to check in with him if she still needs people.
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