Warning: This post has a few swear words.
I saw this tweet on Saturday:
Sigh
Obviously, I couldn’t not respond. What would Twitter be without people arguing with anonymous strangers whose minds they can’t change?
So I replied:
“I don’t need an excuse. Just don’t wanna. I make plenty and have a good saving rate. My mental health is finally in a good place, and I have no compunction about not straining it in the pursuit of money I don’t need.”
Sick of productivity porn
There are so many people on Twitter/in blogs crowing about their vast array of side hustles. Which… good for them, I suppose, even if their frenetic life pace makes me tired to even contemplate.
Seriously, I’d be perfectly happy for them — if a goodly chunk of them didn’t then proceed to sneer at/crap on people who aren’t diversifying their income or who choose not to hustle.
Of course multiple streams of income are probably a good idea. But not all of us have the time/energy for that.
As most of you know, I have chronic fatigue. Other folks have families they’d like to spend time with. Or they may just be tired from their main jobs.
I don’t want to start a podcast. I don’t want to write another book. And I definitely don’t want to go to thrift stores for items to flip or go to a bunch of restaurants as a delivery driver while Arizona is the national COVID hotspot.
Side hustling their side hustles
And naturally, the majority of these folks tweeting about their constant productivity have courses or books about how to emulate their success. Problem: An awful lot of these “experts” are awfully new.
For example, a Twitter user last year mentioned that someone who had been asking him basic investing questions in early 2020 had, by the fall, changed his bio to call himself an “investing guru” and of course had created a course so we could learn from him.
At this point, “Buy my Gumroad course/book” has become a running joke in PF Twitter because a ton of newer Twitter folks have that in their bio.
My favorite is a guy who’d been on Twitter for four months and had 4,000 followers, thus his bio said he was “on track” to reach 12,000 followers in a year — so we should buy his Gumroad course about gaining a Twitter following. Yes, 4,000 people in four months is impressive — though I doubt his engagement reflected that number — but wooooow.
Different goals, different activities
I understand that a lot of these folks are shooting for FIRE and will be able to stop working decades sooner than I will. But that life isn’t for/possible for everyone, and looking down on people’s alleged lack of productivity toward goals that may not even be of interest to them… Well, that’s a pretty crappy attitude.
So no, I don’t need an excuse to not want to start a new side hustle or to pretend to be an expert in something to be able to brag about the thousands I’m making on the side.*
It is absolutely my right to sit on my ass, playing on social media and/or watching TV, rather than fuss with sound quality for a podcast/looking presentable for YouTube, worrying about how often I say “um” and figuring out how the hell to gain followers in a saturated market. And while it’s technically your right to judge me for it, doing so means that you think your way is the only way and your goals are the only worthwhile ones — which kinda makes you an arrogant jerk.
*Funnily enough, they always talk about income, but never net profit, since by the “thousands of dollars” mark, they’ve usually hired help with writing or video editing or social media engagement or whatever.
No need to justify
Incidentally, I only saw that condescending tweet because someone retweeted it with the reply “It’s a pandemic and I have two toddlers and I’m tired all of the time.”
This is a very valid and understandable response. But again, I don’t think we need to explain ourselves at all. I replied:
“To this type of shit I say: I’m a childless, single person in a pandemic, so I absolutely have the time and maybe even the energy, but fuck you — I’m merrily using both to watch TV and be snarky on Twitter.”
And I will stand by this til my dying day.
Speaking of TV…
A couple of weeks ago, I saw yet another tweet crapping on people who watch a lot of TV. According to the tweet, the average American watches around five hours of TV a day. Gasp!
A lot of people replied in horror. They talked about how ridiculous it was. Of course, quite a few mentioned all the squandered potential for productivity.
So I ended up doing a rant thread. It’s what we folks wasting our time with TV and Twitter do.
My thesis
First of all, something I forgot to mention in my tweet rant: Watching TV is a wonderfully frugal activity. So is reading, of course, if you buy used books or use the library. But there’s nothing wrong with TV either.
Second, not all of us can be constantly productive. My chronic fatigue sometimes limits my options. And there are people with far more debilitating issues (or cases of fatigue) than I have.
But more importantly, even if you’re healthy, you don’t need to be constantly super productive. There is, I said in the tweet thread, value in chilling the fuck out.
Y’all make me tired
Maybe it’s just the fatigue, but the idea of living your life in a constant slew of hustles just strikes me as exhausting.
These people are working so hard for that money — usually with an eye toward FIRE — that they end up constantly trying to be productive/wring every potential profit out of life. All so that they can, as the FIRE community likes to say, “buy their time back.” Which, okay, cool have fun with that but… I’m just gonna enjoy my time now.
Look, I absolutely see the value in wanting to be retired young enough that you (probably) don’t have any health issues that would keep you from enjoying that time.
But these peopleseem to assume that illness/disability won’t hit until they’re closer to or past retirement age. The fact is that one in four Americans gets a disability before that point.
A potentially very different future
So what if you work your ass off for years — giving up all sorts of small pleasures — to retire young , only to end up getting sick or disabled shortly afterward?
On the one hand, yes, you’re then lucky to not have to worry about the financial implications of your new inability to work. But on the other, you just wasted your healthy years living uncomfortably, never really going out and enjoying life.
Some disabilities mean it’s difficult to go out much, due to pain/fatigue/immobility or just basic accommodation issues. Or it may even be too dangerous to spend much time around people (especially in public) due to a compromised immune system. And that’s your life for the long haul.
Meanwhile, you spent most of the waking hours of your healthy years hustling your hiney off, and probably foregoing some fun nights out — all with an eye toward future travel, leisure time or quality time with friends/family that now may not be possible.
I’d much rather do the occasional bar-hopping with friends (where I overpay painfully for (delicious) bar specialty drinks) or spend too much on Ubering to/from dates or my friend Kevin’s always-fun house parties than live only for the future. As long as I can save enough for older Abby, I’d prefer to make sure I’m enjoying my present to the fullest extent.
Folks, there’s a reason the Fioneers Slow FI model has become so popular. You need to live at least somewhat in the present — a present that doesn’t consist of only extreme frugality moves (if they’re not necessary for financial survival) — because your future may look very different from what you’re imagining.
A little too familiar
I think part of what rubs me the wrong way about this constant-hustle culture is that it reminds me a smidge too much of teen me.
See, I was frantically busy throughout high school.
At 14, I had honors classes and did school plays. At 15, I added Drama Debate Forensics (the “forensics” meant speeches, not CSI stuff). At 16, I worked full-time during the summer, and during the school year I worked one weekday afternoon/evening plus both weekend days — on top of the two extracurriculars plus at least two A.P. classes and at least one honors class. Oh, and the occasional volunteer work for honor society, of course.
The summers that I was 17 and 18, I worked full-time at a movie theater and then part-time at Red Robin. At least three days a week, I’d work 12- to 13-hour days. Some weeks I never got a full day off.
If you had asked me, I’d have said that I was saving/bulking up my resume for college, that I enjoyed the drama stuff and just generally that I liked to keep busy.
But the reality was that I had to stay occupied. It was the only way to avoid thinking about my situation: what I now know was unmedicated bipolar II disorder and an emotionally abusive father, who had convinced me that I was the problem.
So yeah, basically I had to stay so buys that I didn’t have time for Deep Thoughts.
Being present in the present
To be clear, I’m not saying that everyone entrenched in the hustle culture is avoiding examining their life or that they’re trying to escape dealing with unhappiness. I’m sure plenty of them are well-adjusted and just have too much energy for me to ever want to talk to them. (Joking… mostly.)
But what many years of therapy and finally getting a much-needed divorce have taught me is that there is value to being present in your life rather than living for the future. Especially because, as I learned far too young, the future may not look the way you expected.
If you spend every waking moment working toward your goal, you may miss a good chunk of your youth. If you’re lucky, you’ll have the great time you planned for once you hit your goals. But what if, once you reach those goals, things don’t look the way you imagined?
You can only do so much
Also, everyone — even the hustlers — have limits, and once you hit capacity…
Well, I tried so hard for so long to work despite my fatigue that, when I finally stopped, there was a month where I slept 11 to 13 hours a night, would be up for two to three hours and then would take a two- to four-hour nap, yet I was still barely able to leave the house.
Trust me when I say you don’t want to hit that wall. It’s not worth earning any amount of extra money, unless that money is the only way you can survive financially in the present.
In summation
So yes, people, chilling the fuck out is highly valuable, and I recommend it heartily. Even if it means retiring a couple to few years later. Heck, even if it means a slightly slower debt repayment.
Constantly hustling is exhausting and draining — and generally it’s just not really a good or healthy way to live if you can help it. Especially when you consider that you may be wasting some of the best years of your life working toward a future that may not come to pass.
So stop trying to monetize your hobbies or jump on the latest money-making platforms. Just try to make sure you have time in your day that isn’t devoted to making money. Take a walk, read, look at funny Tweets/TikTok videos, video call friends or (heaven forfend) watch a bunch of TV.
Your future self — hell, even your present self — will thank you.
Anyone here constantly hustling? Anyone here exhausted by all the productivity porn?
I saw the Tweet from the same highlighted person and just rolled my eyes and moved on. I knew at that point, it had probably achieved its real goal… stir up a lot of engagement. I wasn’t going to add anything that hadn’t already been said, probably better than I could say it.
I used to respond to everything, but it’s been helpful for my mental health not to. I do like how you turned it into a more productive discussion than can be had in 280 character snippets.
I wish I had thought of it at the time, but the real answer to any of these things is that it costs time and often more than $100 to do it well. You want to make a viral YouTube video? Mr. Beast spends tens of thousands on them – after years and years learning film making.
There are literally millions of people creating content on Twitter. What’s his point? Is that supposed to be a side hustle?
I never had the energy to make my big ideas happen like start a company in my 20s. It was too much with work. A side hustle like a blog that I could break up into small pieces was exactly what I needed.
Now there’s too much competition for attention. I recommend that you don’t make a product that requires people’s time/attention. Don’t make books, videos, podcasts unless that is going to be THE ONLY thing you do and you are sure that you’ll be in the top 2% with it. I like the idea of learning a skill from the person’s Tweet. Learn to play a steel drum. Learn to change a car’s oil. These are good things.
Of course everyone isn’t in the same place in life. It’s very hard to craft a motivational Tweet for a 25-year-old go-getter that’s going to resonate with a new dad with a full-time job and two toddlers running around. The Tweet could been crafted a lot better, but everyone is going to make mistakes, especially on a quick-publishing platform like Twitter.
Am I too forgiving?
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In this particular case, yes I think you’re too forgiving because either that was a retweet or he later retweeted it, despite the negative comments. (Though in his defense, he did also Like my comment saying essentially “No excuse, just don’t want to.”) But you do make a good point about giving them the engagement they crave when we actually respond. I’ll have to consider that for the future. Maybe if I need to rant about it, just take a screenshot and reference that?
And yes, you’re right that time is another part of the equation. Maybe — *maybe* — your YouTube channel will take off, but in the meantime/if not, you’re pouring many hours into filming and editing and generally coming up with content for pennies. And of course, as you said there’s also the issue of quality.
And finally, I’m not sure learning to play a steel drum IS a good thing haha
I didn’t realize it was a retweet from earlier and that he already got the feedback that is cringey. I didn’t spend that much time on it.
By the time you’ve given them the engagement, it’s likely they already have thousands so I don’t know if one more matters. Also, maybe there’s value in getting it ratio’d. It’s hard to figure out what to do with social media algorithms. As you can tell, I flip flop on the topic.
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And maybe leave a job available for somebody who needs it now rather than padding their retirement
Oooooh, good point! I hadn’t even considered that part.
Would I like to turn a hobby into some earnings? Sure, but not at the expense of the hobby no longer bringing joy. I find I can build my savings better by being more thrifty than trying Job part 2.
Yeah, my concern would definitely be that the hobby can start to feel too much like work and not enough like relaxing/indulging. There are definitely times that the blog stresses me out, but I do still enjoy it as an outlet/rant space. And interacting with you folks too is a big part of it, of course.
I’m glad you’re still doing the blog!
It was worth it to hustle my ass off when I did because I needed it to survive financially AND it was totally not worth it to not remember a whole decade of my life because it was a total haze of just barely surviving. I’m not making the same mistakes now!
I will admit to being tempted to do things so I can trade my 9-5 for a 9-12 or less but honestly a solid income for a regular job without having to create a whole business (which is a ton of work) is pretty damn great. I’m not sure if and when I’ll have the desire to actually do the latter but if I do, we’ll see what comes of it. But I’m not willing to pour myself 100% into working endeavors anymore.
This is me wanting my financial freedom now and not wanting to do anything extraordinary for it. š
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Yeah, obviously it’s tempting to find a setup where you’re paid as well as your current job for far less work. But owning a business is stressful and hard work and just… Nah. I’ll freelance if anything happens to my current job and I can’t find more telework. But I just don’t care enough to hustle as hard as is required for a lot of the products the guy was touting. Hell, I’ve vastly fallen down on promoting THIS endeavor. Forget trying to learn how to get hits on YouTube or TikTok. Blech.
And yes, unfortunately, sometimes people don’t get a choice in whether they hustle their asses off. They have to in order to get by. In which case, these types of tweets are extra insulting because they imply everyone has extra time/energy (when they may fill the day just getting by) and because they make side hustles sound so easy when so many folks are struggling with even steady-paying jobs.
I’m sorry you had to work so hard for so long. I’m glad you’re out of that mindset and have PiC to help keep you on the straight and narrow of not killing yourself with work. Overloading you with tasks and work is your kids’ job now.
I think of the years of my life that I was the most frugal and most hardworking at paid income as lost years, because I pushed past reasonable and into pure workaholism.
I think that to idolize productivity over all things is a fool’s choice. To idolize any one thing over all things is a fool’s choice, really. People need balance.
Yes, this is well put! I definitely don’t want to laze around forever, but I also don’t want to be constantly stressed out and striving forever. Balance is important.
Don’t love work too much… work does not actually love you back.
Work will in all likelihood figure out a way to continue if you die in the saddle. The Company may send a nice floral arrangement (not applicable for side hustles, though, right?) but… you will not be there to enjoy it. And really… I’d rather enjoy life than get a floral arrangement after death.
Death is obviously not an automatic outcome of working too hard but really… make sure you know WHY you’re doing it and take the time to figure out if it’s worth it, because you WILL be sacrificing. And you may not have all the time you think you will.
C,
I agree with everything you said.
Yeah, it’s fine to work hard as long as there’s reason behind it — but also as long as it’s not ALL you do.
AMEN!!!!! I am so over the hustling culture. OVER IT. There’s nothing wrong with being dedicated to your one job and focusing the rest of your time on … DARE I SAY? Living your actual life outside of work!
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I think it helps that I work in customer service, and it’s hard to kill yourself in a job like that — though I’ve definitely had to take on more responsibilities lately. And there is just something glorious about being truly done work when the workday is done. Being able to earn a living, but then having that living happen too.
I’m pretty happy with my single workplace. It takes a lot of my time, and I could probably do some side hustles, but I’m not interested. I had a second job bartending for ten years and I loved it. For about two months, I had a third job waiting tables at a friend’s new restaurant. I vaguely remember driving around on the tiny island I lived on, trying to figure out what day it was, whether it was day or night, and where I was supposed to be. I found someone to replace me for the server job the next day.
Glad you took that step. I remember being pretty bleary back when I was 17 and 18 and working 1.5 jobs. So yeah, I can’t imagine one full and two part-time. Eesh. But it’s great that you had a second job that you really loved. I think bartending would have its fun times but I’d probably quickly get sick of stupid drunk people so… Probably not for me.
Productivity Porn – Love it, whether referring to side hustles or regular paid jobs!
Side Hustle – I just don’t wanna! Thought I would work after retirement, but, I just don’t wanna. Don’t want full-time. Don’t want to drive more than 20 miles and they have to be easy miles not sitting in traffic miles. Don’t want to spend a lot of time and energy being self employed for a little bit of cash; been there and done that. I just don’t wanna! I might want to watch TV for five hours…….
Your Divorce – I was so happy when you announced that, because I had honestly been praying for that for you for a long time.
Content Creators – Some of those folks need to learn how to write (spell, punctuate, capitalize, past/present tense, spell check, use correct words instead of same sounding words, construct a complete sentence, construct related sentences into a comprehensive paragraph, etc.), prior to selling their courses. Rant over, for the moment.
Personal Finance/Investing Experts – I just read an article, in a credible publication, about one of these guys in his twenties. I got out my $1 calculator and the numbers did not add up. Once you deducted mandatory taxes and withholding from the stated income, and further deducted the stated living expenses, he was left with less than zero to invest with. There was no way he made the investment balances he was stating with the income and expenses he was presenting to the interviewer. And certainly not over the stated period of time. I think his next interview will be with the IRS. NEXT!
So glad you are continuing to write Abby!
Yes, I think I wasn’t the only one praying for that for a long time. It might’ve happened a lot sooner if not for his financial situation, honestly. But it happened, and while obviously recent life isn’t a complete bed of roses, it’s very rarely had to do with my romantic status. And honestly I can’t imagine weathering this pandemic trapped here with no other people to interact with. Ugh.
And yes, I would love it if more people learned to write a tad more before creating courses and other pieces of work.
Interesting that the writers didn’t do the math before the publication. I wonder if people are contacting them, because I doubt you’re the only one who did the math.
And hey, there’s nothing wrong with working in retirement but I’m glad you’re able to enjoy yourself not working. Sometimes life is around to be enjoyed. Even in a pandemic.
I see a lot of these posts coming in response to the group of folks saying, āI canāt make it on this jobā or complaining about hating their current low paying job. For those people, I see value in the advice. Motivation for those feeling helpless isnāt terrible.
On the flip side, I see a lot of experts reminding people that if youāve got work you love and you make an average or even low salary … and you are content then thereās nothing wrong with that. Not everyone has to strive for a million dollar something. Happiness has value.
This piece seemed more geared to that first group. Probably because it gets a better headline response….because being content doesnāt seem to do as well.
Iām with you, being content and mental health outweigh the dollars here. But if my home or savings was in jeopardy, Iād see that differently.
Yeah, obviously it’s good to encourage people who need the money to earn it. But I feel like that advice really isn’t geared toward people who are struggling. I feel like most of the time they’re addressing people who are just trying to make more money for FIRE or otherwise. Because most people who are really struggling can’t afford to start something that doesn’t show income right away, like a podcast or blog or course. They have to get another job or do gig work. So I still feel like even for people struggling this advice can be in poor taste. But I also get pretty pissy around smugness, so that could just be me seeing red in general.
Once I hustled. Now I find better uses for my time. Then again, a lot of the hustlers are very young and this is fun for them.
I want more time with DF, family, friends and books books books.
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True, maybe I’d feel differently if I didn’t have fatigue and were younger. And just generally were more interested in making my mark on the world. And perhaps they’re hustling now so they have the time with people you and I are now so interested in. But… I still say I’d prefer not to fully spend the present working toward the future even if it’s a future of complete leisure.
I agree. Life is about the journey, it does not start when you retire. How sad to miss the fun of being young by being “productive” all the time. I am retired now and I can tell you that NOT living my life at 100mph is awesome. I recommend it, but not at the expense of your youth.
I’m glad you’re enjoying your retirement. And yeah — worry about the unknown of medical expenses aside — I don’t have any qualms with the idea of people retiring early. But to plow through your 20s and part or all of your 30s on the assumption that you’ll still have decades of time to make up for it is not my favorite idea. I really like the fact that Slow FI is becoming more popular. I think it’s a much better balance.
I worked tons of overtime from my early 20’s to my late 30’s. Guess what I have to show for it? Diddly-squat. And I did it because I had to – it was either work extra hours or work someplace else. Someplace else would have also insisted on OT. Ahhhh, the joys of Capitalism when your just a pink collar employee.
And another thing – with the pandemic going on and so many lost jobs, where are people finding these extra gigs?!? I know people who are delivering food/driving for Uber just to survive. One friend lives with his 80-something mom because he can’t afford to live on his own. And he’s worked plenty of “gigs.”
I work part time because I can’t really find anything full time that I can do, or that some company wants to pay me to do. Shame on me for being over 50. With chronic health issues. I just need to get another gig and pull myself up by my bootstraps! Okay, I better stop before I get REALLY upset.
So yes, work hard but also work smart and enjoy life while you can. Seriously, the future isn’t guaranteed to anyone.
I do think the pandemic has created more gig work because people are getting food and groceries delivered more than ever. But perhaps that’s more than made up for by how many people aren’t Ubering anywhere. But yes, I have wondered for a while how gig workers are getting enough work to sustain them.
And yes, how dare you have the audacity to be over 50? It’s like you didn’t even bother planning ahead. Or like workplaces are incredibly ageist. Yeah, probably the latter. I hope your next place of work is more understanding and doesn’t require insane overtime. Or any, really.
Another facet of the problems with productivity pressure and work life balance is time with family and friends. We never know when they’ll be gone and was the money made worth missing this? I say no.
Yes, exactly! We don’t know how much time we’ll have with loved ones of any age, so it’s important to get in quality time and good memories — especially if the money is just icing on the cake. I think a lot of people wanting to retire young forget that no one’s lifespan is guaranteed — even young, healthy people — and those people they want to spend so much time with when they’re retired (and thus seeing less of now when they’re hustling) may not be around. Hopefully, yes. But there’s no certainty.
I retired five years ago with surplus assets to support my wife and me at a one percent withdrawal rate, or less. I liked my job so I worked to 60, that’s a stupid thing to do according to many people, but I don’t regret it, it was fun. After retiring I started consulting, only a few hours a week, maybe eight on average. But my rates were high so I made six figures a year. Yet I’ve decided to shut that down this year. Money I don’t need doing work I don’t particularly like? That does feel stupid. I’ll try to replace it with additional volunteer work, that’s already a bigger part of my life than consulting was. Or maybe I’ll watch more Netflix. I just know it had stopped serving me. We are not in the same position but I felt your attitude and it resonated in me. Its your life, its my life, we get to decide. Great post!
Thanks, I’m really glad you enjoyed it!
Sounds like you are and have been in a great position! But yes if you don’t like like the work and don’t need the money, it doesn’t matter that you can technically make six figures with minimal hours every week. Those are still hours spent doing something you don’t like. And yes, there is nothing wrong with some Netflix. Or in my case, an abundance of it.
Everyone wants to side hustle there days and turn it in to passive income. I have learned there is hobby level side hustling and there is trying to scale it. These are two very different things.
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Yeah, if you can make some money from your hobby, by all means. Just don’t do it to the point that the hobby starts to feel like work. That rather defeats the point of having a hobby to begin with.